General Election 2017 – Labour – Work capability and the PIP assessments should be completely overhauled.

In a series of interviews, Able Magazine is speaking with the major political parties about disability issues and the forthcoming General Election.

Debbie Abrahams, is the Shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. She was interviewed by Able Magazine editor, Tom Jamison.

The first question people might want me to ask you is about the leadership and economic competence of the Labour Party. Diane Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn have both struggled to outline the cost of key policies.

Disabled people will want to be assured of economic competence in order to trust that the systems they rely on are going to be well managed…

I’ve known Diane and Jeremy well having been in the Shadow Cabinet for the past year and they’re people, and people sometimes get things wrong, however I’m really proud of the manifesto that we have – and particularly for the manifesto for disabled people that we will be publishing – and how we’ve developed that; I think that’s really important. I would gently point out that our manifesto is the only manifesto that is fully costed.

I would also gently point out that three days after Theresa May launched her social care policy: one of the most draconian policies that we have seen, where the Tories are saying that if you need homecare that you will have to pay for it yourself – three days after having proposed it to then u-turn is unprecedented, so I think we need to be very careful when we are pointing accusatory fingers at people. We’re all human and I think there’s a difference between not being able to recall a particular figure and having to take a major u-turn. And it’s not the first, given that this is a snap election, after six times, I think, Theresa May said she wasn’t going to call an election, and the disgraceful situation around National Insurance, when in the manifesto it said they weren’t going to put it up – and they’ve put it up. We also see her on repeated claims around mental health – and not only within the health service but also for support for people with mental health conditions, within the social security system. It just isn’t there.

Disabled people are people first and of course are interested in the mainstream debates. With that in mind, how would Brexit under a Labour government be for disabled people?

We are most concerned that we put jobs and the economy first and that has to be the absolute priority. 14,000 jobs in my own area of Oldham and Saddleworth are associated with EU trade – 3.5 million across the country. If we look more broadly as you’re talking, we know that 40% of pension funds are invested overseas and specifically in Europe. That’s state pensions as well as private pensions, so making sure that we have a deal, not ‘no deal’ as the Conservatives repeatedly said that they want… It’s really, really important; jobs and the economy have to come first.

What about protective characteristics? Will a Labour government protect disability benefits in the same way as pensioner rights? Will they protect the Winter Fuel Allowance and so on?

We have said very clearly, that first of all, that we would guarantee the ‘Triple Lock’. We know that people of pensionable age that have been able to benefit from the Triple Lock since 2012 are £500 better off. That’s a lot of money for people who only rely on the state pension and we feel that it’s absolutely essential that we guarantee it. We also said that we would guarantee the Winter Fuel Allowance as a universal benefit – I don’t like the word benefit because it has all sorts of different and I think, unfortunate, connotations – because we know that 10million people will be affected by this and we know that older people who would then have to reveal any of their details in a means tested system will tend not to claim it. The whole point of this, as we did when we were in government, was to lift pensioners out of poverty – particularly those who are vulnerable to fuel poverty. It’s a very regressive step that the Tories are taking around this.

Moving on to social security for disabled people, we’ve been absolutely clear, in terms of repealing the ESA cuts that were introduced in terms of the 2016 Welfare Reform Act that that would be repealed. We would re-instate that, as well as making sure that the availability of Personal Independence Payments to people with mental health conditions that was supported by the judgements last year – and the Conservatives in absolutely disgraceful behaviour, introduced a new regulation which prohibited that in March – without any debate and without any vote – we would also re-instate that.

Is that enough..? Is this not the moment to have another look at PIP from the bottom up?

Absolutely. In the speech that I gave as the New Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary last September, I said that first of all, we would be repealing the Work Capability Assessment. We’ve got to completely overhaul the system. I want to make sure that both the work capability and the PIP assessments are completely overhauled and that we have one supportive assessment, and let’s be clear now, these (current) assessments are designed to get people off any support at all. In the same way that the punitive sanctions system is as well. We know two thirds of people who appeal decisions will end up having them re-instated.

I’ve been very clear and there’ll be more detail in the manifesto for disabled people. We want to completely overhaul the systems and (offer) more support. We’ve been looking at what people can do – but also in a holistic way – what are their other needs around housing and around transport and skills and so on?

We’ve been up and down the Country engaging with disabled people and their carers about the key issues that they see and they want changing. This is a manifesto that is with and for disabled people. We had a planning group that involved key disabled peoples’ organisations (DPO’s) as well as charities, so that we could get the format right. Even, given the snap election, we’ve been able to be engaged in terms of the tone and language of the manifesto that we’ve come up with.

It sounds great but why are you the only party that believe that these policies can be properly funded. Are the others wrong?

This is about different choices. We do not feel that it is right – and let’s be clear – that disabled people have borne the brunt of cuts…We know disabled people are twice as likely to live in poverty.

We recognise that there is a ‘pie’ and it’s about cutting it up more fairly – we don’t feel it’s right that multinational corporations that already have the lowest level of corporation tax in the G7, should have further tax breaks. We don’t feel it’s right that the richest people should not pay their fair share in terms of income tax as well. It’s about making sure that we have the appropriate level of tax-take and making sure that we have spread that income around more fairly in terms of the support that we give to disabled people around education, health and care more generally.

It’s not all about taking… Disabled people need to contribute as well. How will you help and encourage them to do that and in so doing, become more visible in Society and able to take up opportunity?

In the (disability) manifesto, we’ve followed the model of UNCRPD, (United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities). There are a number of different sections around social security and social protection but also around employment and work, education, accessible environments, health and social care, independent living and so on as well as being able to participate fully in public life – opportunities around culture and sport – so we’ve tried to reflect the different articles.

Again, I committed last year in my conference speech to halving the disability employment gap. The current rate that the Government pledged in 2015 has the Tories failing miserably – a 1% drop in the disability employment gap (since 2015). It would take another 50 years at that rate… We need to be doing much more.

We will be undertaking a review, for example, of Access to Work and the support that we want to provide around that but let’s not forget that nine out of 10 disabilities and chronic conditions are acquired. We also need an attitude change around employers and we have a number of measures.

Taking you back to 2015 when you were appointed Shadow Minister for Disabled People. From a personal perspective, what did you learn about disabled people and the way they want to live?

I was on the Work and Pensions Select Committee for a number of years. That gave me quite an insight. Since then as Shadow Minister for Disabled People, meeting with DPOs and charities has added another dimension to that and the Disability Equality Roadshow has been very, very revealing.

I was a public health consultant before I became an MP in 2011 and I was involved in a whole range of work associated with disabled people and people with chronic health conditions so that has also given me a perspective. My focus was around health and equalities and the impact of the socio-economic environment on people and the approach that I took was how different policies would affect people I n different socio-economic groups and different population groups, including disabled people.

When I first started as an MP I started what was then called the Oldham Fairness Commission which was about looking at the inequalities of different groups of people. We’ve just talked about a few around education and employment of disabled people. We managed to engage not just the public sector but also the private sector in Oldham about what we could do to change attitudes and make sure that we address the employment gap, so I’ve been doing it locally and obviously as part of my role as a Shadow Minister.